Traction Control System (TCS)

[James Matteu]

So I was swapping bulbs around in my gauge cluster until I can get out to Honda to buy new ones and I got a peek at the circuit board for all the indicator lights.

 

Looks like there is a spot for the Immobilizer Unit Indicator.

One for Daytime Running Lights (DRL).

One that doesn't seem to have a purpose, I cannot remember what was printed on the circuit board, but I didn't recognize it as any type of system.

 

Then there was a Traction Control System (TCS) indicator bulb.

 

I thought, oh that would be cool to have.

 

SO I got curious and found out that Honda TCS seems to work with the ABS hardware and seems to consist of possibly an extra fail safe relay (I think?), a main switch, and a ABS/TCS control unit to replace the USDM ABS control unit.

 

I was wondering if anyone has seen 5th Gen Accord models around the world with TCS and if so, which ones. I need to find more information and would like to start in the correct general vicinity.

 

As you all know, if I can get this into my car, I will make a DIY thread out of the first post.

[Jeffro]

So I was swapping bulbs around in my gauge cluster until I can get out to Honda to buy new ones and I got a peek at the circuit board for all the indicator lights.

 

Looks like there is a spot for the Immobilizer Unit Indicator.

One for Daytime Running Lights (DRL).

One that doesn't seem to have a purpose, I cannot remember what was printed on the circuit board, but I didn't recognize it as any type of system.

 

Then there was a Traction Control System (TCS) indicator bulb.

 

I thought, oh that would be cool to have.

 

SO I got curious and found out that Honda TCS seems to work with the ABS hardware and seems to consist of possibly an extra fail safe relay (I think?), a main switch, and a ABS/TCS control unit to replace the USDM ABS control unit.

 

I was wondering if anyone has seen 5th Gen Accord models around the world with TCS and if so, which ones. I need to find more information and would like to start in the correct general vicinity.

 

As you all know, if I can get this into my car, I will make a DIY thread out of the first post.

 

I didn't think accords had it until '01/'02 V6 models. I'd bet if your car didn't have it as an option, which I've never seen, then you'll be looking for your Acura TL counterpart for that system. They probably used the same guage cluster, so that's why its even on yours. It would definately make your ride a one-of-a-kind if you put it on.

 

The DRL's were required in Canada when your car was around, so if you're interested in adding those, look for a Canadian version of your 5th gen. I can tell you that much at least, but I bet you knew that already.

 

Edit: If you're really interested in the early TCS system, you may want to investigate the early CRV's which came with AWD, because that early I'm pretty sure TCS was more common on RWD vehicles. Also, investigate high end Odyssey's (Also Isuzu something or other was the same thing) because they all came standard with ABS, so maybe the high end ones had TCS too. I know my '96 had ABS but not TCS and it had the same engine and other very similar construction to the Accord (and still does IMO.) There's a very good chance you just share a guage cluster with a vehicle that had it, not necessarily another 5th gen Accord is what I'm saying if you follow.

[James Matteu]

Awsome! Thanks!

 

I have been doing some reading and found plenty of complaints by NSX owners regarding TCS. The computers seemed to freeze up when the wheels would provide slide input data during a sharp turn, drift, or burn out. Those late 90's NSXs had ABS/TCS systems that would correct a drift when the vehicle was already commited to a turn, often catching the driver by suprise and in some cases causing an over-correction leading to a loss of control. Frankly, I think it speaks volumes about someone that tries to burn out or drift with their TCS switched on .

 

Apparently, the early TCS systems handled FWD better than RWD, as I have found no complaints by RL owners.

 

Luckily, I don't own a RWD Honda, nor do I drift. My concern is a car full of kids on a wet slippery road in a heavy deluge (as we often have in Florida). ABS has saved my car many times, I would love for that same system to keep my car pointed in the right direction.

 

I have also determined (on the 2008 Accord) that the TCS does not have any additional relays. For my car, it would be a matter of finding an appropriate ABS/TCS control module, repinning my ABS connector to accept the new ABS/TCS control unit, and then resetting the new ABS/TCS system.

 

A JDM Integra "ABS/TCS" sticker for my rear window wouldn't hurt either. I do know JDM DelSols had ABS/TCS as an option, but I need to try and find something stateside first.

 

I checked the Helms 1997-98 CL ETM and found nothing on the Contents page labeled TCS. Thanks for the input, I will see what I can find on the other Hondas!

[nicolaselias]

Funny that you mention this... for 11 years we had that accord and I never took a comprehensive readthrough of the manual.. then one day I sat and read it all out and thought, my word... look at features that DID NOT come with my car..... Including TC, I can give you the exact manual info on it if you like but I was surprised that it was actually an option on the car.. My father has a 98 Acura RL and I dont think he even has TC...

[James Matteu]

... for 11 years we had that accord...

A 1997 Accord? From which country?

 

... I can give you the exact manual info on it if you like...

Any information you can give would be greatly appreciated.

 

...My father has a 98 Acura RL and I dont think he even has TC...

Would that be a USDM 1998 Acura RL? Do you know what trim level he had?

[nicolaselias]

Hi James, I just got my hands on the manual for the car... my sister had taken it out for a spin.. I'l tell you exactly what it says about TC

 

First off, its a 1997 Accord EX bought and kept in Trinidad and Tobago.. I know that the car came direct from Japan but some of the trim on the car isnt an exact match on the Japanese model (eg the headlight lens design etc)...

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s339/ni...as/IMG_4288.jpg

 

 

Next step, the RL is marketed as a Honda Legend here in Trinidad, Acura being a US only brand... its basically the foreign equivalent to the 1st Gen Acura RL.. pictures will follow later today most likely... Il also get out the manual from that car and let you know what it says..

 

Now. for the accords manual, RE: TC

 

The TCS works on the same speed sensing principles as the ABS. The TCS monitors the speed of the wheels during acceleration. If one drive wheel stars to spin faster than the rear wheels, the TCS reduces engine power to minimize wheelspin..

 

The TCS uses the same wheel speed sensor assemblies used by the ABS. An additional sensor measures steering-wheel angle. This senses how far the front wheels are turned, if at all.The TCS control unit receives the signals from these sensors.

 

When the TCS senses wheelspin, the control unit determines how much slippage to allow based on the difference in wheel speeds and the steering angle. It then controls the throttle and signals the engine's ECU to regulate ignition timing and fuel flow. This reduces available engine power.

 

The control unit monitors the TCS circuitry while driving. If it senses a problem, the TCS indicator light on the instrument panel goes on. The system will then be turned off.

 

From what I can see, the light clusters just above the fuel gague is where the two TCS lights are housed. The bottom cluster in my car contains 3 lights, left to right low fuel, ABS and then TCS indicator (amber) .. which i dont have

Above that there are two more lights, the one on the left is the cruise control light, to the right of these two is the TCS activation Light (green)..

 

 

Im not really sure how much help this has been but I hope its what you need... As soon as I get the info from the Legend (RL) i'l give you but I know for sure it doesnt have TC cause i do burnouts just by planting my foot too hard at a light...

[James Matteu]

Not what I wanted to hear, but vital information nonetheless.

 

From that description, the 5th Gen Accord ABS/TCS works with the ECU, where the indicator lights on the gauges are triggered from inputs received from the ECU.

 

This is like the immobilizer unit on the USDM 1997-99 Acura CL. The car really doesn't have special equipment per se, rather, the immobilizer receiver mounted to the steering column feeds the code transmitted by the ignition key into the ECU, where the ECU verifies the code and then decides whether or not to power the fuel pump.

 

I was hoping the 5th Gen JDM Honda ABS/TCS system controlled vehicle speed by applying brakes (via the ABS pump). From the above description, it sounds like the ABS/TCS system reduces power by manipulating the ignition/fuel supply :sad: .

 

 

Let's see if the RL shines some rays of sunshine on this project.

[nicolaselias]

I checked up on the Acura RL manual... I downloaded it online as I couldnt find mine and basically everything they said about TC for the accord was the same for the RL... I dont really know much about braking TC systems.. all the cars iv ever driven did it by monitoring fuel flow and cutting back the engine power.... Just think that if the car was losing control it would probably be a bad idea to be applying brakes in any capacity..

[James Matteu]

Your right about the braking, and in adverse conditions I do let off the gas already. I guess what I had in my mind is something along the lines of an Active Torque Transfer System.

 

Thank you for the information, I don't have access to non-USDM Accords with TCS, so I am limited in my ability to determine how the ECU differs, e.g. if there is a TCS sister board on the ECU mother board.

[Tubbith]

A T&T member... What part you from? I have a buddy whos whole family (aside from partents are down there)

 

 

 

James, nothing from the CL you can use this time? lol.. (sorry couldnt resists... since a lot of other custome things you seem to be doing are borrorwed from my car)

[nicolaselias]

Hey Tubbith.... I'm from San Fernando, Trinidad but i study at University of South Florida - Tampa, so I'm up there in FL for about 8 months a year...

The 97 accord is my car down in Trinidad but I drive an 02 Volvo s80 in Tampa..

 

The things about TCS is, i tend to take it off most times in the Volvo (besides rainy or highway driving etc) because i'm pretty accustomed to driving cars without it, so it doesnt really make that much of a difference to me... I guess my foot is all the TC I need haha