suenjbo Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 278K miles, 94 Accord EX 4 cyl - Timing belt broke. what should I expect? Also found air intake tubing dry rotted and cracked....where best place to find new one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_link Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 More than likley your motor is an interference engine. This means that there is not enough cleareance between the pistons and the valves, if the valve is open and the piston comes up to top dead center. What this could mean is that you have bent valves now. If they bent severely enough then the valve guides may be taken out as well. Now this is not to say that absolutly you do have bent valves, you may get lucky. But in any case get a belt on it, and do a leak down test to see if you have good sealing in the chamber. This test can tell you if there are any bent valves or not. Also it can tell you on what side of the motor they are bent. Meaning on intake, exaust, or both. I would venture to guess the intake are more likely do to there larger size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelSolSweetie Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 hoepfully just a broke timing belt and not any messed up valves.. ive known some honda timing belts to break and didnt cause any major damage.. wont know until you pull it apart though as far as the intake.. you can get an aftermarket short ram intake for like $20 from your local advance auto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpearce1974 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Damage will vary, depending on RPM when timing belt snapped. I had one give out as I was pulling in driveway and had no damage. Friend had his go out on freeway at 75MPH and basically trashed motor. Good excuse to do a swap:laugh: and we did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suenjbo Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 thank you all. just got the head off this evening..taking it to machine shop tomorrow to get them to check it. no real evidence of bent valves. What should we expect from the machine shop? Lots of soot in intake runners also. Any ideas? Thanks again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeryon Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Roughly 9 out of 10 times you break a timing belt on a honda 4 cylinder you end up ruining the head. Really the only way to tell if this is the case is to go to the trouble of taking the motor apart and/or replacing the belt before you will find out if it needs further repair. It can usually be repaired, but in your instance with a 248k car you might be better off buying another car or buying a salvage yard motor with less miles on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suenjbo Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 where do you suggest getting timing belt kit for parents on a budget? lol. Any other parts recommended while we are this far into it? What is mileage expectancy on this car? This is our 17 year old daughter's vehicle. Need it to last for college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeryon Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Well, if the head is damaged you would be cheaper to replace the entire motor with a lower mileage one. As for TB parts, you need the belt, a new tensioner and tensioner bolt and a new waterpump. You have to take the AC, PS and Alt belt off to do this, so just buy those too. All total the parts should run around $100-$150 or so. Since the head is off to check for bent valves don't forget to grap a head gasket kit while you are at it. There is no life expectancy for this car, it will keep running so long as you want to keep putting money into it. There are lots of documented cases of original motors breaking 500k when fully maintained. My guess is someone forgot to replace the timing belt on your car every 80-100k, otherwise this sort of break happens very rarely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_link Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 you have the head off the car. While you are this far, you could look at replacing the piston rings, and to rod bearings. With 250k miles, this can't hurt. if you have access to a cylinder hone, may want to hone the cylinders. But for the rings, make sure they really measure the piston walls to make sure the right piston ring set is the right size, same goes for the crankshaft rod journals. Don't know how much you really want to put into this motor, but this could be a start. Piston rings from Nippon Piston Ring, you can find for around $40 Rod Bearings, $45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeryon Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Ignore the last part he said, if you are replacing the timing belt always replace the water pump and tensioner parts. And why would you have him fully rebuild a 250k mileage motor when he can buy a compatible import replacement with 30-50k on it for the same price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_link Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Ignore the last part he said, if you are replacing the timing belt always replace the water pump and tensioner parts. And why would you have him fully rebuild a 250k mileage motor when he can buy a compatible import replacement with 30-50k on it for the same price? $85 Where can i buy a motor for that price. I'll take ten. I am talking if he can to the work him self, its not that hard to hone the cylinders, replace rings, and rod bearings, and all you spend is around $100 and a weekend. That is not totaly rebuilding the motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeryon Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 add to that the head gasket kit, the timing belt parts and now you are talking $300 or more in parts if he does all the work himself and thats if the head is perfect and not damaged. f23s are cheap, i mean really cheap. You can usually find local yard pulls in the $200-400 range and 2 minutes searching importers I found; h23's long blocks are 900, f22 motor and trans for $750 and f23 motor and trans are $700. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_link Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 add to that the head gasket kit, the timing belt parts and now you are talking $300 or more in parts if he does all the work himself and thats if the head is perfect and not damaged. f23s are cheap, i mean really cheap. You can usually find local yard pulls in the $200-400 range and 2 minutes searching importers I found; h23's long blocks are 900, f22 motor and trans for $750 and f23 motor and trans are $700. he asked what other parts he could change. So i gave him suggestions. I love how people on here are so quick to put people down for there suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeryon Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 I didn't put down your suggestion until you actually suggested reusing a $20 waterpump and a $5 tensioner in a timing belt install. He never asked about other parts, he asked what to expect. What to expect is if the head is bad to not throw away money on an over the hill motor. Put that money toward a lower mileage swap and get another 250k out of a $500 swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpearce1974 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 he asked what other parts he could change. So i gave him suggestions. I love how people on here are so quick to put people down for there suggestions. Well certain factors are involved, most people who come in like the poster, have bare basics of mechanical knowledge. So a motor rebuild is out of the question, A swap however is infinitely easier and is indeed cheaper considering possible lack of skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_link Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 where do you suggest getting timing belt kit for parents on a budget? lol. Any other parts recommended while we are this far into it? What is mileage expectancy on this car? This is our 17 year old daughter's vehicle. Need it to last for college. he asked, read all the post. And i said look at the water pump and tensioner, only removed it after seeing you had already mentioned it. lastly, i wrote these suggestions, with the thought of finding the head good. If it is good then the money is worth it. If it is bad then your right the motor swap is probably, the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeryon Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 While we are being petty, you think he should do the rod bearings, the rings and hone the walls. Anticipting that he is most likely a novice at auto repair, since most people are, how exaclty were you going to teach him how to do that and provide the appropriate tools to complete that work in the 'weekend' of yours. You haven't been here long enough to have learned that people are not negative, they have learned to be practical in their advice since most people coming here and asking questions do not have the know-how or the equipment to complete much of the work that the regular members do frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_link Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 While we are being petty, you think he should do the rod bearings, the rings and hone the walls. Anticipting that he is most likely a novice at auto repair, since most people are, how exaclty were you going to teach him how to do that and provide the appropriate tools to complete that work in the 'weekend' of yours. You haven't been here long enough to have learned that people are not negative, they have learned to be practical in their advice since most people coming here and asking questions do not have the know-how or the equipment to complete much of the work that the regular members do frequently. Look i gave a suggestion. My point is, add to the thread and leave others to there suggestions, not talking down to there ideas. If he is able to try my ideas he can, if not so be it, but there is no need for bashing on others comments if i want to give the info. If you want to be candis with your info and stay to the narrow novice repair route fine, but at the same time leave others that want to look at deeper suggestions to there own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeryon Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 I take it you haven't used message boards much? You write something and click 'send' it is out there, for better or worse. What you say will either be loved, ignored or be pissed on, shat on and generally torn apart. Why? because it is the internet. Stop wasting your effort trying to defend the fact that I shot down your response and move on. Doesn't mean it was a bad comment you made, just means I didn't like it. No hard feelings, but you seem to be taking this personally. Remember, opinions are like buttholes: Everyone has one and they all stink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suenjbo Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 CAN WE GET A GROUP HUG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok so both of you a right. I was a master certified diesel tech, and a silver chrysler tech. The only prob is i have been out of the business for ten years.. Thats why i came here for advice.. you guys and gal have helped me tremendously.. Anyway, all the exhaust valves are bent and a few intakes... machine shop gonna check the guides then let us know..They say $175 just for the valves. and $150 for gasket kit. i found the exhaust manifold cracked upon disassembly.. So give me a parts list ladies and gents.. And quit Bit@hin at each other...LOL.. I found an engine assy with 95k for around $800.. The cyl bores have minnimal wear, maybe it was taken care of before we bought the car with 195k on it? I can go into the bottom end later if need be.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeryon Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 My vote: find a complete long block and slide it in and call it a day. Keep the old one under the workbench for spare parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpearce1974 Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 If you are not using oil by the gallon, and if you are only having head work done, and can do the rest yourself I say go for the cheap. Are you planning on keeping the car for only like 1-2 years, or do you have long term goals in mind?? If its the later by all means do as Jason proposed and go that route. Because by the time you buy timing belt, water pump, tensioner, head gasket kit, pay for machine work, your time, and all the stuff I am forgetting. You will be into it as much if not more depending on how much you do yourself, into a HIGH mileage motor with a new top end, and a OLD bottom end. Not a great combination. You should know that being from the mechanic field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterspock07 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I take it you haven't used message boards much? You write something and click 'send' it is out there, for better or worse. What you say will either be loved, ignored or be pissed on, shat on and generally torn apart. Why? because it is the internet. Stop wasting your effort trying to defend the fact that I shot down your response and move on. Doesn't mean it was a bad comment you made, just means I didn't like it. No hard feelings, but you seem to be taking this personally. Remember, opinions are like buttholes: Everyone has one and they all stink. You kinda need to think its a girls car that takes her back and forth to school so they are not askin for a newly built car haha but i would much rather do the swap if it was me but if i was to do the swap i would def. go with a better motor that would last longer like the d15 or d16 they are very reliable motors and if someone is lookin for one i have a d16 V-TEC and a d15 with a d16 head for sale both rebuilt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suenjbo Posted June 16, 2010 Author Share Posted June 16, 2010 You kinda need to think its a girls car that takes her back and forth to school so they are not askin for a newly built car haha but i would much rather do the swap if it was me but if i was to do the swap i would def. go with a better motor that would last longer like the d15 or d16 they are very reliable motors and if someone is lookin for one i have a d16 V-TEC and a d15 with a d16 head for sale both rebuilt The other thing i am in favor of is that we only gave $500 for the car (running good) , so i am thinking $600 for the head work still doesnt put us behind much.. Right?? Shurely it will go 4 yrs through colllege? The D4 light is flashing with the O.D. inop... thats another topic much later down the road... How would i identify D16 and D15 differences? Which do i have? Thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeryon Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 you have neither. your 94 accord should be an f22 varient. i'm lazy and didn't look up the exact code. pretty sure the f23 didn't roll out until 98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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